#466 – Jeffrey Wasserstrom: China, Xi Jinping, Trade War, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Mao

Historian Jeffrey Wasserstrom discusses the leadership styles of Xi Jinping and Mao Zedong, highlighting their shared association with personality cults. Mao's cult was prominent from 1949 to 1976, while Xi is the first leader since Mao to cultivate a sustained personality cult, marking a return to a focus on the leader's image in Chinese society. Wasserstrom contrasts their approaches: Mao embraced chaos and public unrest, while Xi values order and stability, integrating elements of both communism and Confucianism into his governance.

Understanding modern China requires examining its historical context, particularly Confucian teachings that emphasize hierarchical relationships essential for societal order. Confucianism is characterized as conservative, seeking to reclaim a perceived golden age, which contrasts with the progressive nature of Marxism. The tension in China arises from the coexistence of Confucian values and communist ideology, emphasizing historical reverence within the political landscape.

The podcast explores the evolution of political ideologies in China, noting the tension between Confucian traditions and the rebellious spirit of figures like Mao. Xi adopts a mixed approach, drawing inspiration from both Mao and Confucius to project a narrative of national power. The complexities of meritocracy in Chinese culture are discussed, rooted in Confucian ideals that emphasize education and self-improvement, yet public discontent arises from perceived inequities in success distribution.

The 1989 Tiananmen Square protests are examined as a pivotal moment in Chinese history, where students sought to hold the Communist Party accountable and push for political reforms. The protests were fueled by frustrations over corruption and nepotism, catalyzed by the death of reformist leader Hu Yaobang. The movement gained momentum as students and workers united, but ultimately faced a violent crackdown by the People's Liberation Army, leading to the iconic "Tank Man" image symbolizing defiance.

The conversation highlights the government's efforts to suppress discussions about the protests and the violence that occurred, contrasting it with the more recent protests in Hong Kong, which were portrayed as chaotic while downplaying peaceful demonstrations. Censorship in modern China is discussed, with the Communist Party employing methods to suppress competing narratives, particularly regarding its leaders.

The discussion also touches on the challenges of discussing sensitive topics in regions like Singapore and Thailand, where censorship creates a dangerous environment for open dialogue. The conversation reflects on the importance of freedom of speech for innovation and progress, contrasting it with self-censorship observed in some countries.

Wasserstrom considers how Mao would react to modern China, particularly regarding the availability of diverse literature. The conversation critiques the narrow historical perspectives often held in the U.S. and Europe, emphasizing the need for diverse viewpoints in understanding history and culture. The challenges of operating in China due to technological and regulatory factors are also examined, alongside the impact of social media on information consumption.

The conversation delves into the surveillance state, particularly in Xinjiang, where individuals accused of radicalization face tight control. The discussion raises broader questions about the trade-offs between personal freedoms and security, relevant to both governments and tech companies. The Chinese Communist Party's approach to maintaining power by offering consumer choices while restricting political freedoms is highlighted, particularly in the context of slowing economic growth.

The dynamics of U.S.-China relations are explored, particularly in light of the ongoing trade war and Xi's determination to enhance China's global standing. The conversation emphasizes the historical context of Hong Kong's governance since the 1997 handover and the erosion of autonomy, drawing parallels to Taiwan's situation. The urgency for change among younger Hong Kong residents is noted, particularly in response to perceived threats to their identity and freedoms.

The conversation concludes with reflections on the potential for social movements to achieve change over time, drawing on historical precedents. The complexities of Taiwan's geopolitical situation are discussed, emphasizing the interconnectedness of regional movements and the challenges faced by the U.S. in responding to China's actions. The desire for a future where diverse literature is accessible in both Hong Kong and Beijing is expressed, alongside an appreciation for the rich cultural diversity among various peoples.